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#13550687 Dec 01, 2017 at 06:01 PM
10 Posts
As I was watching the AoC channel on Youtube, more specifically the Node System, I honed in on the idea of player owned and contested cities. Based on their explanation of the system, the one player that contributes the most to that area or takes leadership of that Node is essentially the owner of that land. This got my brain turning in the opposite direction on the idea of the weight of player death. This made me curious how high they are going to make the value of one of your characters lives. So my thesis questions for this thread to dwell on:

What are your detailed thoughts on the idea of permanent Character Death? For or against? Why?

If Death is permanent, how do you feel this will effect the way you play the game?

If Death is non-permanent, how severe should the loss be to your progression?

With Non-Perm death comes respawning, if you should respawn what should you lose? What should you be allowed to keep? Why?

How would you value/play your character differently if conflict brought potentially permanent side effects should you be unsuccessful?


These are all questions I began to formulate aa i heard more about the concept of "Risk vs Reward". With such a significant reward, i feel that the potential for a devastating risk could potentially be a very unique aspect to this game that would seperate it from all others. What if for example you found yourself in a situation where you were the leader of a node, and while under the seige of another enemy node, an assassination plot was carried out on you and conducted successfully, inspite of all the odds. What happens? If the risk is to equal the reward, what would be the loss?

In the event of a permanent death system, one would make a new character and start over from scratch. But who would continue playing after such a traumatizing loss?

I feel that the idea of respawning may be nice, but with the risk being as high, it should potentially he in the starting area. You keep your character, but how extensive should the loss be? Level? Money? Items? Housing and citizenship will certainly perish but will everything else too?

The final thesis is how these different aspects would effect your Roleplay approach and play style?

Let me know your thoughts, opinions, concerns or complaints about the ideas presented. Im eager to hear them!
Jon Baeryn, Future AoC Predator
#13550855 Dec 01, 2017 at 09:44 PM · Edited 12 months ago
AoCRP Admin
58 Posts
As far as game mechanics go OOC, I don't like the thought of spending a year or more playing as my main character, getting gear, housing, rep, levels, etc. and then having the game tell me "no, you died once, you're done." unless it is made explicitly clear that this is how the game is meant to be played. MMOs never feel to me like they can benefit from character death deletion, or permadeath, simply because of how much content is put into the game. Survival games and such, on the other hand, are made to make you feel disposable, and I like the high risk, high reward gameplay that doesn't require hours upon days upon weeks of play to get anywhere significant.

My thoughts on in-character permadeaths, however, stray from that. What I prefer to do, and how I prefer to handle character deaths, maiming, amputations, or anything else rather significant is to involve it with a serious, well-thought out series of play. If my character is going to die, I like it to be a collaborative plot where that -may- be a consequence of what the character does, always with a possibility for an "out" in some way that results in a failure but lack of meaningful, serious death. That way if myself or another player initially goes into a plot expecting a chance of death, they can manage to find their way out of it if they take the outs presented.

I prefer to have high consequences for high risk RP. A criminal loses its punch if they can simply get away with murder not by their own wits or connections, but "because I said my character isn't dead". Same as a soldier that pulls heroics might not always make it out of warfare unscathed. A crafter might get themselves under some unstable equipment and do the same type of thing. But usually all of the things I mentioned above involve thought prior to getting into that sort of RP, and a few people around as the audience to your character's death. Therefore I'm alright with character permadeath if it is involved in a plot of some sort and has impact. I advise no one, however, to be "that person" whose characters somehow constantly get killed, or otherwise seriously harmed/traumatized repeatedly. After a bit, those "plots" begin to seem like cries for attention and it can become tiresome to deal with.

With AoC, I don't believe there will be OOC permanent death, and I honestly hope there will not be. There will be too much to do on a single character, made worse if you have to play them safe OOC to even be able to RP them. If I die in-character, I'll likely re-make the cosmetics of said OOC character, give them a new name, personality, and backstory, and keep going with the same OOC character to preserve the work done. I think having to re-roll characters repeatedly in an MMO would be too much when we already are at risk of death by PVP open flagging. It's precisely why I won't be joining that game that -is- coming out with permadeath as a mechanic. I want to play a character for years, not OOC months. Or at least have the opportunity to do so. Adding shorter-term permadeath into a game people are actively wanting to RP in for a long period of time will result precisely in RPers just not going out into the world for the sake of maintaining their character, so I can't support the idea of having OCC permadeath mechanics, myself.
#13551124 Dec 02, 2017 at 02:55 AM
10 Posts
I agree in many aspects of your point. I went onto the AoC official forums and discovered a few things related to OOC death so far, though its not completely fleshed out:
No perma death, but your respawn location depends on your corruption level, which is effected by your hostility to people in that area.

Most deaths includes something similar to a "going into the hole" negative xp system where your progression gets severely hindered and equipment degrades.

In certain high stakes pvp situations, resource loot drops and even player gear drops are a potential.

In the event of a seige to a node that youre a citizen or owner of, if the seige goes successful the node will atrohpy a level and kick the owner off the throne. Nodes going down in level kicks out all the lower level citizens of each level until finally degrading under level 3 and kicking everyone out.

I will be posting again on a more proper rp channel to discuss the Roleplay aspects of these effects.
Jon Baeryn, Future AoC Predator
#13914799 Dec 03, 2018 at 10:44 PM
8 Posts
Like what Halgrave said, OOC progression keeps a lot of us from lightly killing our characters, as well as well, the whole attention grabbing thing. I would go for the whole injured thing, which would have to fit the situation. Honestly, if I have to be offline for a few days, I typically plan something that would affect my character that would give them a reason not to be around.

Branching off to how I'd heal those injuries... Well, I like to play it off with magic. (Unless my char hates magic) For me, magic can heal the wound, but the pain and weakness linger. So that requires me to RP out the recovery, and RP our the rebuilding of strength. It allows for some Non-event RP between friends in the court yard, and such.

I suppose it would really depend on whether or not it's time for my character to die. I love really long and involved stories and focusing on one character to live through everything other players put them through. I tend to kill off my characters when their story works for it. I've broken so many hearts by the timing/method of my characters death.

For me, I'd rather IC interaction with characters established in the story going on around my character be the decider of my characters death. And even then, you've got to have my OOC permission before we even consider it if your character wants to be the cause of mine's death.
#13914924 Dec 04, 2018 at 02:57 AM
1 Post
My biggest, I guess you could say complaint, about IC permadeath is while it is an option available to me as a player I find that there's no reward for it. High risk, high reward after all. The only thing is there's no real reward. If we win, my character gets to survive. Yay. If we lose my character dies. Nay. Which is something I can even prevent from doing in a lame "because I said so" fashion. I get the same reward from saying "I don't want Johnny Stu to die in this event." that I do from saying "I'm willing to have Johnny Stu die this event"-- granted I'm putting this under the same confines Hal has set at the beginning of the post. That my character will have an out if he can find one.

Obviously there's the possibility that I can get a Sword of Awesome+3 at the end of the event but that does not translate into the game in any significant way. That and if Johnny Stu did die, what then? Would I race change? Can I even race change? Would I just have to say he's Marigold Harold instead after dumping some real life money into cosmetic changes? In WoW I can at least reroll a person entirely if they'd die. They'd be the same race, gender, and level but they'd be a different person which would be good enough for me. But a lot of these questions pop up for me that make me hesitant to put my character on the proverbial altar.
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